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Post by Coconut on Feb 7, 2009 9:00:35 GMT -5
What's your stand on it?
I'll post mine once I hear the views of other's.
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Post by IndigoWolf on Feb 7, 2009 12:09:52 GMT -5
Infanticide, plain and simple. The arguments I've heard for it are the same arguments the ancients used for leaving their newborns out in the woods to freeze to death and get eaten by wild animals. I view a childs right to live as more important than whatever rights the mother claims to have, and if she doesn't think she can take care of it there are plenty of people who would be happy to adopt.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 7, 2009 12:34:43 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, there's a point where it's wrong and there's a point where it's right. If a man rapes a woman and the woman gets pregnant, she has every right to abort. Hell, if she gets pregnant through consent sex she has every right, in my opinion. It's a woman's body in which the baby is conceived. It's a woman's uterus in which the baby is held during pregnancy. It's a woman's body the baby is squeezed out of. A woman has the right to do whatever she wishes with her body, therefore, including abortion. I have the right to raise my little finger. She has the right to abort her baby in her uterus. Once it gets into the foetal stage of development then is when it becomes murder. Up until that point, a woman has every right, in my opinion.
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Post by IndigoWolf on Feb 7, 2009 13:37:51 GMT -5
But the baby is not part of the woman's body, it is a seperate living being. A woman should have the right to do what she wants with her own body, I agree, but not her child's, no matter it's location. Also the point at which it becomes murder is completely arbitrary and changes over time. In some cultures it was alright to kill one's own child if it had not yet been given a name. There is no way to determine at what point a person becomes a person, and killing someone should never be the best option.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 7, 2009 13:41:04 GMT -5
It's not killing if it's not living. A foetus is the point when it becomes classified as 'living'. Up until then, it's not living. And it's inside the woman's body. If I stay round someone's house, do they not have the right to kick me out of their house?
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Post by IndigoWolf on Feb 7, 2009 13:57:31 GMT -5
Since when is a collection of living cells not alive??
I'm sorry but this is a subject I find sickening and very upsetting, and I do not want to discuss it further. Anyone else can say what they like. I've made my case, and I continue to stand by it. I just really hate arguing.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 7, 2009 14:01:03 GMT -5
Fair enough.
And I don't make these rules that it's not considered a living being until a foetus. If I remember correctly, that's what it's classified as.
Hell, I'm obviously all for the rights of the individual person in comparison with those of everyone else. Yes, abortion's aren't exactly nice, and were I a woman I wouldn't want one myself, however each unto their own.
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Post by thundercavalier on Feb 8, 2009 1:59:56 GMT -5
It's really choice, though I detest all Abortions performed by about the foetus stage, where the being can be classified as living and can feel pain and such.
"All people are considered equal." - The Constitution of the United States
It applies to blacks, women, and any undeveloped specimen that is developed enough to be called sentient.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 8, 2009 2:57:18 GMT -5
It's really choice, though I detest all Abortions performed by about the foetus stage, where the being can be classified as living and can feel pain and such. Exactly my point. "All people are considered equal." - The Constitution of the United States I hadn't heard that one before. From the country that treats Communism as some sort of affliction, that makes me laugh. Hard. It applies to blacks, women, and any undeveloped specimen that is developed enough to be called sentient. Exactly. Yet before the sentience point is when my argument kicks in.
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Post by Danny on Feb 8, 2009 3:57:04 GMT -5
I'm always 50/50 when it comes to Abortion. For example, my friends sister is almost 3 months pregnant. She's 15. She's going to be a mother before her 16th birthday. She's way too young to be a mother and this poor kid isn't going to be brought up in the best of conditions either, she's been kicked out of home and living with the fag who knocked her up. She went to get an abortion, but she made a scene and apparently came running out of the room all hysterical.
I didn't want her to get one, but I kinda thought it was the best thing, for the kids sake. But, I think it's too late now.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 8, 2009 4:01:51 GMT -5
I'm always 50/50 when it comes to Abortion. For example, my friends sister is almost 3 months pregnant. She's 15. She's going to be a mother before her 16th birthday. She's way too young to be a mother and this poor kid isn't going to be brought up in the best of conditions either, she's been kicked out of home and living with the fag who knocked her up. She went to get an abortion, but she made a scene and apparently came running out of the room all hysterical. I didn't want her to get one, but I kinda thought it was the best thing, for the kids sake. But, I think it's too late now. Poor girl. Yeah, fifteen is way too young to have a baby. Hell, in today's culture sex is idolised as some sort of aim that everyone tries to get as early as possible, which is wrong. It just allows people like this dude to take advantage of young women, who's emotions aren't really all sorted out yet, and get them pregnant. Whilst this girl should have been more sensible, you can't lay the blame entirely on her. Her emotions aren't all sorted out yet, and she's not at all sure of herself. Her parents kicking her out is just ignorant, pointless and entirely detrimental. If she feels no one loves her, this child will be raised in even less good conditions, and her whole life will suffer because of a lack of parental support and a feeling of abandonment. Her boyfriend can't exactly help her here. The baby won't be able to live to it's full potential, and I really pity her and her soon to be child. Yes, three months is too late, in my opinion, for an abortion. That would count as murder. It would also mean that a lot of mental and psychological problems may occur for her in later life. Abortions not a nice thing. I'm just in support of it being an option.
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Post by thundercavalier on Feb 9, 2009 4:20:09 GMT -5
I'm always 50/50 when it comes to Abortion. For example, my friends sister is almost 3 months pregnant. She's 15. She's going to be a mother before her 16th birthday. She's way too young to be a mother and this poor kid isn't going to be brought up in the best of conditions either, she's been kicked out of home and living with the fag who knocked her up. She went to get an abortion, but she made a scene and apparently came running out of the room all hysterical. I didn't want her to get one, but I kinda thought it was the best thing, for the kids sake. But, I think it's too late now. Ouch. Sorry about your sister. Try to console her and probably offer SOME advice. Sounds like she's really screwed, no offense.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 9, 2009 13:17:24 GMT -5
Sounds like she's really screwed, no offense. If that was a pun, it was mildly funny but might be considered innapropriate, lol. Anyway, I've said my stance.
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Post by IndigoWolf on Feb 9, 2009 15:12:51 GMT -5
"All people are considered equal." - The Constitution of the United States I hadn't heard that one before. From the country that treats Communism as some sort of affliction, that makes me laugh. Hard. Used to Coconut, most of that ended along with the Cold War. And Communism is not the only philosophy that attempts to bring about equality. Most of our leaders, though, have failed, in my opinion, to show the respect they should to our Constitution since wealthy, corrupt business owners began manipulating the government during the industrial revolution. You can criticize capitalism all you like, but please refrain from lashing out at my country and it's Constitution. Please don't take this the wrong way. I mean no disrespect, but I felt that needed to be said.
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Post by Coconut on Feb 9, 2009 15:17:57 GMT -5
Used to Coconut, most of that ended along with the Cold War. Indeed. And Communism is not the only philosophy that attempts to bring about equality. Most of our leaders, though, have failed, in my opinion, to show the respect they should to our Constitution since wealthy, corrupt business owners began manipulating the government during the industrial revolution. You can criticize capitalism all you like, but please refrain from lashing out at my country and it's Constitution. Sorry if you took it that way; it's not how it was intended. It wasn't 'lashing out'; hell, I know some decent Americans. Every American on this site. Don't get me wrong, America's a nice enough place. It's just the few that spoil things. Indeed, my comment wasn't a piss take of America, merely an ironic comment, considering I can walk along the streets in England wearing a CCCP shirt and not get insulted etc. once. Having tried it in America, the looks I got were just appalling. I don't intend on particularly lashing out on capitalism or America either. I'm sorry if you took it that way; it's not how it was intended. You're a nice person, Indy - my intentions weren't offensive. Please don't take this the wrong way. I mean no disrespect, but I felt that needed to be said. No worries, indeed it did. I don't generally get pissed off too easily.
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